IAma former employee of a jail where I watched inmates be beat for fun. I was fired for reporting it, and have spent the last decade of my life testifying for those inmates. I did an AMA before, but couldn't say what really needed to be said. I'm ...

So I take it that it's safe to assume that 'Blue code of silence' does indeed exist, and I'm very glad that you were one of the ones to not follow it.

But related to that, would you say that most cops follow that code of silence, or is that moreso just a small number of cops giving the rest a bad name?

Absolutely. It is real, and EVERYONE follows it.

When do you hear of cops testifying against their own "brothers?" You don't. 99.999% of them follow the code of silence. I just don't understand how they can look at themselves or sleep at night.

EDIT: IN MY EXPERIENCE everyone follows the code. I'm sure that there are good upstanding cops out there, but I haven't met many.

Thank you so much for fighting against the horrible corruption and evil. I admire you so much words fail. You live in exile away from you family, but you should be proud to do so, proud that evil people hate you so much.

I dream of a time when guards and police officers will be held to a higher standard, made to wear cameras, etc.

Keep up your important fight.

Thank you! I wish they were held to the same standard as everyone else. They need to be held accountable for their actions. For there to be any real justice, there has to be accountability. For Law enforcement at any and all levels, that simply does not happen, therefore nothing will change until those who are committing the real crimes are in prison side by side with the people they beat.

Were there specific types of people who were singled out, or did they treat everyone the same?

Poor, brown, drunk, high....

Basically people who couldn't defend themselves, or wouldn't remember it in the morning.

Prisoners have the opportunity to get drunk or high in prison?

This isn't prison. these people had just been arrested and being brought to jail for the first time, so yes there were plenty who came in drunk, high, poor and/or brown.

So you could potentially get pulled over for blowing .02 BAC over the legal limit or something and get beaten up like this if the officers decided they didn't like you or you looked weak/were African American?

Potentially?

I saw it happen almost daily.

What about disabled people, mentally or physically?

Well, the video I have, he was a triple amputee, so I'd say yes.

A lot of inmates have mental illnesses, that's why they commit crimes and wind up in jail.

what do you mean by brown? like middle-eastern?

I mean anything other than white. The officers I worked with, were for the most part a bunch of racist, toothless, redneck squidbillies.

That's how I picture most police officers. It doesn't really take a lot of intelligence to do what they do (no offense).

I've yet to meet a cop who was a MENSA member, so I'm sure your assertation holds some weight.

I'm sure they do. The ones in my jail would make hooch (jail wine) and would have people send them drugs through the mail or during visitation.

that happens everywhere.

Hooch is crazy.

i smelled it a few times, and it didn't smell bad once everything had fermented. Our inmates usually used apples and oranges.

but ... but, you're not supposed to mix those!

it smelled great, though!

What do you think can be done to stop this?

In the jail I worked in? The Department Of Justice needs to be made aware, repeatedly (which I have done) and I believe the jail should be taken over by the DOJ until the "powers that be" can comply with regulations on treatment and care of people in custody. Human beings are being murdered by the very people charged with their well being, and I have a problem with that.

While I appreciate the answer, and I do think it's a good one, I meant on a larger scale. Obviously this is happening other places too. Is there something that could be done to combat this on, say, a national level?

Apologies!!

It is happening in other places. I think the FIRST thing that must happen is that all officers wear cameras on their uniforms at all times. All data is sent to a NEUTRAL 3rd party agency and is kept there where no one can tamper with it, period.

I would put everything I own betting on 70% of the complaints and altercations would disappear, police departments would be cleaning out the corrupt, good ol' boys and the courts would no longer be clogged with cases of police brutality.

That would be the first thing. People must be made aware, laws need to be passed. The brutality must stop.

So far, test projects show a 90% drop in excessive force complaints when cops wear cameras. This is the solution.

Also, thank you for doing this.

Isn't that amazing!!

This NEEDS to happen!!

Though its a sad day when people need to be constantly monitored to prevent such things. Whatever happened to integrity?

It went right out the window when 18 year olds got set loose in a jail with no supervision and no consequences for their actions.

As a corrections officer the only problem I see with wearing a camera at all times is the restroom and the fact I swear too damn much.

HAHA!

If I had to wear one, that'd be my main complaint too.

I definitely agree that officers should wear cameras on their uniforms at all times, and that the data should be stored by a neutral third party.

Suppose a police force starts wearing cameras on their uniforms but, instead of being maintained by a neutral third party, the data is kept within the department. If there's a case brought against an officer or the department and footage that should exist somehow "can't be found," what should the repercussions be for the offending officers and the department failing to provide the footage?

This is just one of my crazy ideas, but I believe if you tamper with evidence then you should be convicted of the crime you attempted to cover up and you automatically get the toughest punishment.

The video I have is tampered with, but I can't do anything about it now.

What's your opinion on the persecution of whistleblowers in law services? There's an ongoing case in Ireland where two whistleblowers were ignored and shunned for leaking info and you lost your job like you said

Whistleblower laws are too tough for the people speaking out. I had a very blatant whistleblower case and it was an absolute nightmare.

The problem is that legal entities tend to demand more loyalty and demand that you turn a blind eye to their criminal activity while working to convict and send some guy to prison for 20 years for having a joint in his pocket.

They need to keep fighting. Never give up.

Ye I struggle to understand the whole stigma/illegality. Surely if you see malpractice or something that shouldn't be tolerated its only right to report it right?

So much hypocrisy for a service that's job is to serve justice however it covers it's own injustices and acts as if they're entitled to do so

That's my mentality, but who do you report the cops to? I tried to get someone's attention and was laughed at when I called the OSBI and the FBI. There is nowhere for whistleblowers to report without there being repercussions.

The Hypocrisy is staggering, I agree.

In Ireland there's an ombudsman which is a place you can lodge complaints about government/public bodies. Those two Irish gardaí went to the ombudsman and were laughed at saying that they would be torn apart for trying to go against the minister for justice. Luckily for them they had the meeting recorded and this was leaked once they were shit down

That's the smartest thing to do... document everything.

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I have gigs of documentation. It's a lot to go through and would take a lot of time. Nowadays the media isn't interested in a piece that would be very time consuming, they want something quick, and this isn't something that is quick.

I've tried to get the media to listen, but they seem not to care.

What was the feeling like when you first witnessed something like this happen?

The first one I remember was within the first week of starting:

I was outside having a smoke and my co-worker (who had just started too) and I felt the ground shaking under our feet. From where I was standing I could see inside the jail and there were 4 or 5 officers on top of someone, and one of them had gloves on and was slamming his head into the concrete floor. I didn't realize what was going on until I saw the pool of blood and the guys face. I was horrified.

I just felt sick to my stomach reading this. I can only imagine the emotions you felt actually seeing this.

It's something that haunts me, that's for sure.

I've found that talking about it helps.

When did you decide to take action? If it started happening immediately when you got the job, how long did it take you to speak up?

It was a few months in, when I started saying something. I'd see them go too far, and say something like "Why are you doing that to him, he didn't deserve that." then I'd have a meeting with my Sgt, who would tell me that we're a family and we watch each others backs, and don't say things like that.

Then I started documenting....

I think these kinds of things might be hard to change, because we often hear normal, everyday people say things like "oh, well they were criminals, so they deserve what they get." when did we lose a sense of compassion, or did we as a society never have it to begin with? How do we convince most Americans that yes, this is a big deal, and inmates' treatment should be getting national attention?

It has to be relatable, and in most circumstances, people don't think about it until it is too late, and their friend or family member is dead or horribly injured.

The problem is that these are NOT criminals, this usually happened right after they got arrested, and usually haven't even been formally charged with a crime. These people haven't even seen a judge....

What sort of media coverage did this story get? Does it continue to get significant coverage? How can the media handle it better?

It never has really gained traction, and that is disappointing to me. There have been a few small stories over the years, but I think if the media would actually talk to me and talk to the families of dead inmates and actually hold the people responsible accountable for their actions, then it would gain traction. If I could get the attention of the right people at the top, I have the documentation and evidence to PROVE that there is and has been abuse happening at that jail for the last decade.

I think there needs to be an exposé on that jail and people need to know who they are electing into office and what those people are allowing to happen. I can prove it, I just need a big enough microphone where the right people can hear me.

Have you followed up with the condition of the jail? Have the problems been fixed or is it still a problemed facility? Is there a larger issue here that maybe has more widespread ramifications or is this just a "bad Apple" scenario?

Yep. Still just as bad. I've reported to to everyone I can, and sent everything I could to the DOJ and they did nothing. They chose to do nothing 10 years ago, so I hold them partially responsible for the continued abuse of inmates.

They did nothing to stop it, so they are just as guilty.

Why did you stay there for 3 years if you saw someone's skull bashed in after 3 days?

And did you or do you still have any post traumatic stress problems?

I thought it was normal. That was my first job. I was raised in an extremely fundamentalist/ultra conservative household and I was always taught that you don't question authority. It took a few months for me to start speaking up, and I was also trying to go to college at the same time and my job was already set up around my schedule. It was an income I could survive on, and finish school.

As for PTSD, I'd say yes. Certain things bother me more than others, but seeing cops wail on someone still sets me off every time.

This AMA is so much better than all the vapid celebrity ones. On-point answers, no dodging questions, not trying to sell anything.

Thank you! I tried!

isn't it odd how officers who report this get fired, while officers who do the deed just get "suspended indefinitely with pay"?

Of course!!

then they get hired on at another agency with a promotion!

I spent 4 days in LA country jail for a DUI and I was amazed to find out that the inmates weren't the ones to be feared, it was the officers. Is this the case in most jails, or just very large overcrowded ones like Rikers and LA county?

It appears to be a very widespread problem.

How long did you work at the jail for?

Was there brutality from the start, or after a new warden took over, or what?

What did your professional duties at the jail consist of?

3 years.

Day 3 was the first time I saw someone's skull be bashed into the concrete.

I did a little bit of everything while I worked there. I set charges and bond, filed paperwork, answered phones, that kind of stuff.

I worked in Warrants for a bit, and when I was fired, I worked in Central Control, so I could see everything that happened inside (and outside) the jail.

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Vaguely. I've heard of it, and if I remember right, there's a Ted Talk featuring him. From what I've gathered, the cliff notes is that good people easily turn bad in the right circumstances, something I like to call the 'Heisenberg Effect'

I think it's the structure of the job, the training, the fact that they beat it into your head from day one that "INMATES ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS, DO NOT TREAT THEM AS SUCH," A lot of it was 18 year old kids who wanna play cops get thrown into a jail after 12 weeks of training with a license and ability to kick ass. Then I think the YY chromosomes kick in.

County, huge appreciation for your effort. The prison system in the US is ironically one of the biggest injustices I have ever seen. I've had two family members go to prison and based on their feedback, it seems most inmates come out worse than when they went in. A lot of prisoners have mental illnesses and instead of help betting better they end up with more reason to not trust people. Question: do you think it would help if prisons had live stream cameras throughout so anyone can see how these prison guards are acting too?

They always come out worse than when they went in. The system is designed to fail.

Not so sure about live streaming cameras where anyone could watch. There is a lot of nudity in jail.

I think that cameras on the officers should become mandatory.

Are you seeking some sort of compensation for them firing you? Isn't that illegal for them to do??

I sued them and settled out of court back in 2007.

What they did was very illegal.

Did they plan the beatings or was it spontaneous and unpredictable?

Well, for a while I worked in receiving, so sometimes it was planned (when we'd get a call that a fighter was coming in) or sometimes officers would pick them out when they were coming in the doors. It depended on who was working and what kind of mood they were in that night.

just reenforces for me that they arent any better than the individuals being brought in.

Most of the time, they are not.

The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons. Fyodor Dostoevsky

I agree.

And that makes me sad.

What do you think of private prisons? Do you think that the U.S should adopt more of a rehabilitation model of incarceration?

There has to be an active rehabilitation model ( Like the one is Norway, I believe) where inmates get out and actually become productive members of society.

Private prisons are prisons for profit, and there is nothing ok about that.

From inmate or staff, what was the single most appalling thing you saw when you were working there?

Probably when I watched them drop an 80 year old man on his head for not following orders when they had just made him take out his hearing aids.

I can't stand to watch old people cry. That one killed me.

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It's not disappointing. People are winning cases, the Department of Justice is FINALLY investigating the jail I worked in. The public in OKC is starting to see what kind of problem they have.

It will change, maybe not now, maybe not for 20 more years, but I will keep fighting until the right changes are made.

Were these inmate victims violent or non-violent offenders? Not that it matters in my opinion, just trying to understand.

It was anyone and everyone. Charges ranged from Public Intox to DUI, Possession of drugs... whatever.

I rarely, if ever saw someone with a big charge, like rape or murder get thrown a beating in front of me, though.

Do you think that's because the officers thought someone accused of those crimes would be more likely to fight back or resist? Or because those cases tend to get more coverage and therefore their chance of exposure heightened?

I have my suspicions, but I don't know.

I think they behaved for a few reasons:

1. That inmate, more than likely killed someone. Let's not make them try again.

2. Usually the upper brass was there for high profile arrests.

3. They weren't in my dept. long, they were usually moved up to the floors quickly, as the had no chance to post bail.

I don't have much to say really, other than you are totally awesome for standing up for what is right.

So, thank you :)

^{I try to make people realise how awesome they are!}

Thank you!

I want to thank you so much for being an honest cop. What happened that made you fear for your life, though?

I was followed, harassed, threatened, I lost several jobs, but the kicker for me was when my former co-workers looked me in the eye and told me they would kill me.

Thank you, BTW!

Did you report them? That's assault and they could be arrested, correct?

I tried. They could have been, but by time the DOJ got around to looking at it the statute of limitations had ran out.

Would any inmates try to defend themselves and if so what would happen to them?

They did.

They wound up in a body bag or in ICU. No matter how big you are 10 trained officers are going to win any fight.

Thank you for all you've done! My question to you is what do you think of Dorners manifesto and why do you think the situation was handled the way it was? (Being basically burned alive without any trial)

It made me cry. I sat right here and sobbed while I read it. I know what he went through.

He was set up and murdered by LAPD. I knew that's what they'd do to him and what they'd do to me if they got the chance.

Wow I had no idea. I live in OKC and even applied for a position at that jail once. I've heard stories of people being fired because of assult but I had no idea it was a regular thing. What was the last straw for you after working there for 3 years?

I was fired for reporting the beating of a triple amputee, and documenting the evidence and then raising hell about it.

It is a regular thing, and has been one for years.

You are a man with an outstanding sense of morality, and I can only hope that if I'm ever in a circumstance with a tough decision to make, that I'll make the right one like you did.

Thanks!

This may seem like a silly question, since I'm not familiar with the prison systems in the US. Is the prison government-owned and the employees thus employed by the government, or is it just the building owned by the government and the guards from a private security firm?

Not that it would make any difference really, violence is violence, but I can imagine either private employees being free to do what they want if they are just on an anonymous contract, and even with government employees given that jobs are hard to lose once you're 'in'.

Another quick question, was everyone involved with the beatings? Were there some guards who didn't partake in this like yourself (aside from not standing up and objecting)? Were you encouraged to join in?

In any case, I'll avoid that region for the near future, and I thank you for helping out those who cannot help themselves. :)

This is owned by the County government. Everyone there is an employee of the County.

Now, not everyone was, there was the "Black Boot Tribe" on one of my shifts who did the greatest portion of beatings. The "Slap A Hoe" tribe was on another shift that I worked. Some of the officers had the same mentality that I did which was to not be involved in their altercations, because once the altercation was over, they all sat in a circle and wrote their reports together.

I don't really have any questions, but I just want to say thank you for having the courage to do what you did, and to let you know that you're a fucking hero.

Thank you!

Honestly, while I have strong moral beliefs and constantly maintain a strong stand against bullying, there is just no way in hell I would have the tenacity to see through what you are doing. If I was around you I'd shake your hand - the hand of the bravest man that I've ever met.

I'm a lady, so you can give me a high five then!

Thank you, though. Seriously.

You mentioned giving an interview with the Moral Courage Project. Did you receive help or advice from any other prisoner advocacy group, if indeed any such groups exist?

They do exist, but they have their own agendas.

If there was one that would actually help, that'd be amazing!

My biggest question is this: Why? You may not have the answer, but I don't understand why the guards would do this? Why wouldn't the city stop them if it cost money in lawsuits?

Power is the fastest way to corrupt someone. Give an 18 year old power over other human beings and they will abuse it. Give power to bullies who never grew up, set them loose in a jail and give them a license to beat other humans without repercussions and this is what happens.

The county has paid millions out to inmates and the families of dead inmates, yet they seem to have no desire to stop the abuse. I suppose they figure its cheaper to keep paying out lawsuits than it is to completely dismantle the jail administration and start over.

How many of these were gang related?

The Officers in that jail had a "gang" they called it either the "Slap A Ho" tribe or the "Black Boot Tribe" depending on who they were.

Usually those guys just sat there and shut up until their bond was posted. I just made sure that the gangs that didn't like each other stayed the hell away from each other.

Has any of the guards ever threatened you for talking

Yep. I've had my life threatened many times.

Late to the party once again. What are your thoughts on the overuse of solitary confinement in correctional facilities?

Solitary makes people crazy. It doesn't take long to do it either.

Solitary needs to GO.

What do you think about Joe Arapaio?

He's just as bad. The DOJ is in the process of taking over the jail, if I heard correctly.

WHat do you do now for work and ends meat?

I work in an office. I make ends meet. I'm not driving a Bugatti, but I'm also not afraid to close my eyes anymore, so I'll take it as a fair trade.

Having seen what you've seen, do you believe that people in postitons of authority and trust (e.g. police officer, politician, etc.) should receive harsher punishments for crimes betraying that trust, but only while acting as a representative of their respective office?

Absolutely. I believe they should receive the harshest punishment under the letter of the law.

Where specifically does this mostly happen? I would assume that they are very strict with this type of stuff in the northeast and along the east coast.

It happens everywhere, just no one can speak out about it, unless they want what I got, which was a one way ticket to the other side of the planet.

Thank you for what you do.

You likely can't answer something like this, but maybe a lawyer in the thread can. It seems that whenever I see cases like these, there's a pattern that goes: accusations made, accused's vehement denial, accuser's truthfulness asserted and evidence hinted at, defense's further denials with accompanying character dispersions, video evidence surfaces, recantment/settlement/fini.

Am I imagining that or do the prosecutors follow a rough plan like this in order to let the accused dig themselves ever deeper and finally destroy their own credibility?

From my knowledge, personal experience and the simple fact that every case I've been involved in has won, I can tell you that for some reason, in Oklahoma that' how it works.

This absolutely infuriates and disgusts me, and as someone who LIVES in Oklahoma county, this terrifies me.

Don't go to county.... If you do just shut up and call someone to get you out ASAP.

YOU LET OPIE DIE

No, I didn't. The pigs I would have been working with let Opie die.

Don't put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby.

There have been issues like this at the St louis work house on hall street in missouri. What suggestions do you have for inmates to report this appropriately?

Document, Document, Document. The inmates need to write letters documenting their abuse and send it to their family, who would compile the letters and take it to an attorney, who would then contact the DOJ, FBI and everyone else.

Dates, times, places, officers names... everything. Document it all.

How common is this in jails? Does it depend on what part of the country it's in?

Pretty common from what I understand. It probably depends on what part of the country one is in as well.

When you write that you can "really talk now", what exactly were you not at liberty to disclose during the last AMA?

Thanks, very interesting read BTW

I couldn't discuss specific cases or the details about the brutality that I witnessed, now I can.

Ever read the book "The Lucifer Effect" by Philip Zimbardo?

I am familiar with it, yes.

So, you've moved to another country? I am ashamed that you had to do that. I hope you've been able to pick things up, make new friends, etc. You don't deserve it.

I won't disclose my location exactly, but I am, in my opinion, safe.

I did up and move, but in hindsight, it was the absolute best thing I've ever done for myself.

How would you reform the prison systems if you were king (ie. anything you say will be done).

1. Everyone wears a camera.
2. The "whistleblowing" process would be much easier
3. There would be a neutral 3rd party who reviewed any and all video evidence and made recommendations for prosecution.

What can a normal person do to.help raise awareness? Is there a charity? A non-profit?

I don't know of any charities in Oklahoma. I'd say contact the ACLU and be involved in inmate outreach programs. When you hear of someone being beat while in jail, listen to them, try to help them. That's all anyone can do until the right people take notice.

How infuriating is it that injustice like this is accepted and not fought for?

It's disheartening, but doesn't stop my resolve. There are solutions to these problems and until they cease, i will not stop fighting for the voiceless.

Was the prison single or uni-sex? If so, did female guards assault female/male prisoners? Did you witness rape either male on female or male on male?

We had male and female inmates.

This was a jail, not a prison. these people hadn't been charged with anything. Some of them were just in jail for public intox. This isn't a hardened prison.

Rape, while i'm sure it exists, i believe is over glorified on TV. I only heard of a few while there, and never witnessed anything like that.

Do most officers partake in this or does a silent majority just stay out of it?

It depended on the shift. On some shifts there was much more of a "family"mentality. These people lived together, worked together and partied together. Those guys were the absolute worst.

On another shift, there were some, but then there were some who did not participate.